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ogenoct
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 04:01 AM
Ave!

I am infiltrating the National Bolshevik Party with my pan-Aryan ideology! Check it out:

1.) http://bolsheviks.org/DOCUMENTS/EUROPEANWATHERVANE.htm

2.) http://bolsheviks.org/DOCUMENTS/BETTERRED.htm

HAIL Stalin!

Constantin

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 04:51 AM
Best of luck to you. Although I believe Alexander Dugin already addressed this issue.

What comes to the myth of "the solidarity of the white race", it is a complete utopia that leads not only to the Holocaust of the Jews, but also to a genocide of the Slavs. The remains of the Third Reich are a basis for this miserable, contradictory and sompletely false conception. The Anglo-Saxon world is one sociopolitical and cultural reality. The inhabitants of Central Europe are something different. The Eastern world of Orthodox Christianity and Slavs is a third reality. I am certain that many non-white peoples of Eurasia are a thousandfold closer to us in spirit and culture than Americans. In this question I am 100% affirmative with the visions of L.Gumilev.

http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm

Nothing against Dugin or even National Bolshevism; theres much I admire in both.

ogenoct
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 05:27 AM
Yes, I am aware of Dugin's view on this issue. But he is no longer a member of the NBP. Also, I know that the official stance by the NBP on race is rather evasive. That is why it is high time that somebody takes a firm position on it!

Constantin

Fraxinus Excelsior
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 06:20 PM
I am infiltrating the National Bolshevik Party with my pan-Aryan ideology! I think you meant to say "I'm infiltrating the pan-Aryan movement with my communist ideology."

ogenoct
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 06:46 PM
I think you meant to say "I'm infiltrating the pan-Aryan movement with my communist ideology."
That too, naturally...

Constantin

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 08:44 PM
Yes, I am aware of Dugin's view on this issue. But he is no longer a member of the NBP. Also, I know that the official stance by the NBP on race is rather evasive. That is why it is high time that somebody takes a firm position on it!

Constantin

Alright, but what about this?


http://www.geocities.com/europe_a_nation/leftright/faq.htm

ARE YOU RACISTS?

No. NBP in Russia do have Jews in the party, some in leading positions, and everyone is welcomed as National-Bolsheviks, regardless of ethnicity or origin. But we do recognize a Nation's or ethnicity's historical and cultural traditions and everything that it means.

Because the mass immigration 'exodus' of the Third World is created by the Liberal-Capitalist power we see it as obvious that European nations help its blood sisters and brothers. The system is the cause of problems, not the Immigrants; they're victims of the purges by the World Capitalist dreadnought. We fight for them, for their right to a prosperous homeland.
When the World Order is smashed (may that day dawn soon, inshallah) and the Third World countries liberated, the repatriation minimize Ethnic conflicts in the West and flow these undeveloped countries with the 'know-how' and intellectual power needed for social rebuilding.

About 'race mixing': We National-Bolsheviks believe it's an individual choice whom a Comrade or Citizen decide to spread his or her offspring with. It isn't a political matter. However, we believe that all ethnicities (of aesthetical as well as natural reasons) should be preserved for the future generations, and an example of an endangered 'race' is the black Africans, that after hundred of years of Colonial oppression, slavery and now, through HIV and mass starvation, faces a long-term extinction. It's a matter of enormous proportions to be solved, for the best of Mankind and the Africans, but through the existing system this in entirely impossible.

ogenoct
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:03 PM
This is just one member's opinion (Thomas Sutter from Sweden). However, you are right: the NBP is essentially a non-racial organization. This is why I do not support them 100%. I do, however, believe that it has many worthwhile elements that are quite useful in our struggle. Ultimately, I believe in a synthesis. We should be able to take the best (practical) elements of various ideologies (including NS) and discard the rest. It is time for something fresh and new! EVROPA awake!

Constantin

Fraxinus Excelsior
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:14 PM
That too, naturally...
You say that like it's a good thing.(Which it is most certainly NOT!)

No thanks.

ogenoct
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:27 PM
You say that like it's a good thing.(Which it is most certainly NOT!)

No thanks.
That is just, like, your opinion, man...

Constantin

nazbol1917
Wednesday, May 12th, 2004, 07:01 AM
You kids shouldn't play so rough, someone's going to get hurt! But back to the issue at hand:
The NBP has adopted a rather evasive stance on race, as you stated before, though I think they are correct in using loyalty to the Russian state and the ideal of National Bolshevism as the basis of their nationalism. However, the state that Russians are called to be loyal to, and the idealogy of National Bolshevism itself, is based on Russian traditions and does not accept cultures such as Judaism and the Muslim cultures of Eastern Europe as being the ideal for their state. While not implicitly racist, the NBP basis itself on Russian nationalism, without neccesarily excluding non-Russians.

Siegfried
Wednesday, May 12th, 2004, 07:53 AM
You kids shouldn't play so rough, someone's going to get hurt!

Indeed. Try to keep the discussion civil, and avoid insults.

Turificator
Wednesday, May 12th, 2004, 08:30 AM
The NBP has adopted a rather evasive stance on race, as you stated before, though I think they are correct in using loyalty to the Russian state and the ideal of National Bolshevism as the basis of their nationalism. However, the state that Russians are called to be loyal to, and the idealogy of National Bolshevism itself, is based on Russian traditions and does not accept cultures such as Judaism and the Muslim cultures of Eastern Europe as being the ideal for their state. While not implicitly racist, the NBP basis itself on Russian nationalism, without neccesarily excluding non-Russians.

So in other words, the NBP is fighting for a centrist, Jacobin, totalitarian super-Russian State. I think the NBP has some very valuable people in its ranks and their propaganda is excellent... But Stalinism? C'mon! Is that really what you want?... Also, the NBP needs a clearer plan of action. At the moment it sounds more like an artsy avant-garde counter culture than a political party!

PS: Ogenoct: I generally find your posts interesting. Even if I don't agree with your ideology, it's nice to find openminded people out there. (And I also enjoy some of the stuff you post through the National Anarchist yahoo group).

Moody
Wednesday, May 12th, 2004, 06:27 PM
To magilla gorilla and ogenoct I have deleted that spate of uncivil posts above.
While I respect magilla's vehement anti-Bolshevism, I would remind him that Njord has made the decision to put a National-Bolshevik subforum here.
Therefore such ideas must be discussed in a civil manner if they are to be discussed at all.
I hope magilla does not take this as a thorough rebuke; his work is valuable, but I ask him to channel his anti-Bolshevism into the Fascism/National Socialist subforum.

I will routinely delete such exchanges which occur in the Politics forum while I am Moderator here.

As for ogenoct; although I don't share his politics, I find his contributions to be of a very high standard and he does not deserve any uncivil attacks on the basis of them. Most importantly, he is PRO-ARYAN!
'Nuff said.

I am fascinated in his infiltration of N-B, and his tendency to want to form alliances across the divides.

He is also a good poet.

http://www.mipt.vcu.edu/img/trio.jpg

ogenoct
Wednesday, May 12th, 2004, 07:19 PM
As for ogenoct; although I don't share his politics, I find his contributions to be of a very high standard and he does not deserve any uncivil attacks on the basis of them. Most importantly, he is PRO-ARYAN!
'Nuff said.

I am fascinated in his infiltration of N-B, and his tendency to want to form alliances across the divides.

He is also a good poet.

http://www.mipt.vcu.edu/img/trio.jpg
Thank you very much for the compliments. I appreciate it. This is an awesome image, by the way! Where did you find it? Also, you are right that I want to cross divisions and build bridges. It is the only way out of the current situation. Together we will be stronger! HAIL the Red-Brown Alliance!

Constantin

Fraxinus Excelsior
Thursday, May 13th, 2004, 01:39 AM
To magilla gorilla and ogenoct I have deleted that spate of uncivil posts above.
While I respect magilla's vehement anti-Bolshevism, I would remind him that Njord has made the decision to put a National-Bolshevik subforum here.
Therefore such ideas must be discussed in a civil manner if they are to be discussed at all.
I hope magilla does not take this as a thorough rebuke; his work is valuable, but I ask him to channel his anti-Bolshevism into the Fascism/National Socialist subforum.

I will routinely delete such exchanges which occur in the Politics forum while I am Moderator here.

As for ogenoct; although I don't share his politics, I find his contributions to be of a very high standard and he does not deserve any uncivil attacks on the basis of them. Most importantly, he is PRO-ARYAN!
'Nuff said.

I am fascinated in his infiltration of N-B, and his tendency to want to form alliances across the divides.

He is also a good poet.
No offense taken, Moody Lawless; actually, I agree full-heartedly with the deletion of our little disagreement. I'll take your advice and use it wisely.

nazbol1917
Thursday, May 13th, 2004, 05:27 AM
In many ways yes, the NBP of Russia is fighting for a state similiar to that which existed under Stalin. It is not as totalitarian, but the socialist nature of what they call for, the call for Russian culture to be preserved, and the idea that nationalism does not have to center around race is all part of their idealogy.

This being a website for White Nationalists, I am suprised to find a debate about National Bolshevism going on, though certain elements of the NB idealogy and certain members of the movement are perhaps closer to the White Nationalist and/or National Socialist idealogy than I myself am. Not wanting to insult these idealogies, as this is a forum for them and not for the more Marxist leaning idealogies, I have to say that I have a more "Marxist" approach to National Bolshevism than some. That being said, I certainly respect the nationalist roots of Stalin's policies, and am inspired the spiritual yet non-Orthodox nationalism of Edward Limonov. This nationalism, when combined with the loyalty to a "Socialist Motherland" that Stalin put forth, is what I see as being the best form of Russian National Bolshevism, though my own American form is different as it must be adapted to American conditions.

Moody
Thursday, May 13th, 2004, 04:10 PM
This particular subforum allows those of us coming from a basically Hitlerian perspective to have many of our assumptions challenged.

This is good, and, even if we may ultimately remain unshaken, we become bigger for it, as magilla gorrila has shown.

Ogenoct's anti-Hitlerism is completely different from the Judaic mainstream's, and is actually thought-provoking [as well as being refreshingly anti-Semitic].

As long as we preserve our main desideratum of the Aryan Race, then I think such exchanges of ideas can be very constructive as we have a very real basis of agreement.

Of course, if that desideratum is rejected by our opponents, and they espouse multiracialism, then we have little in common with them.

So while we can both share the term 'national' in our nomenclature [no matter how differently we may define it] we have grounds for progress.

The image that ogenoct remarks on was found on an image-search for Stalin/Hitler together - mundane, I know. It is from a web-site for the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, if you must know;
http://www.mipt.vcu.edu/wwii.html

http://www.daggerman.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/SAFDick.jpg

Deling
Thursday, May 27th, 2004, 11:29 PM
So in other words, the NBP is fighting for a centrist, Jacobin, totalitarian super-Russian State.

Yes. Totalitarian democracy in Russia, for Russians, and a 'Jacobin' NB state.

I think the NBP has some very valuable people in its ranks and their propaganda is excellent... But Stalinism? C'mon! Is that really what you want?...

NBP isn't Stalinist, and not Communist either. That's, according to Limonov and Dugin in their first NBP manifesto, why their ideology was called National-Bolshevism and not National-Communism.

I Europe, however, NBs often have a more National-Communist stance, because National-Bolshevism is a Russian phenomena and Russian ideology, and the idea 'Gibraltar to Vladivostok' could be interpreted as Russian chauvinism or Pan-European ideals. Which of these isn't important now.

Also, the NBP needs a clearer plan of action. At the moment it sounds more like an artsy avant-garde counter culture than a political party!

NBP isn't a party, it's an 'association'. NBP isn't allowed to exist as a party in Russia. NBP's existence, now that is, is more or less based on opinion-making towards youth through direct actions. For NBP, ideological disputes comes second, what matter is What To Do.

King Yngvar
Saturday, September 25th, 2004, 02:03 AM
Together we will be stronger! HAIL the Red-Brown Alliance!
I stand in somewhere the middle of the two great ideologies, so I must definately agree to that. Both are authoritarian and nationalist, so together they must stand!

americanfront
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 08:21 AM
[QUOTE=Taras Bulba]Alright, but what about this?


http://www.geocities.com/europe_a_nation/leftright/faq.htm

ARE YOU RACISTS?

No. NBP in Russia do have Jews in the party, some in leading positions, and everyone is welcomed as National-Bolsheviks, regardless of ethnicity or origin. But we do recognize a Nation's or ethnicity's historical and cultural traditions and everything that it means.

Because the mass immigration 'exodus' of the Third World is created by the Liberal-Capitalist power we see it as obvious that European nations "



That is a mistake!

Deling
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 05:03 PM
"That is a mistake!"

Yes, that whole discussion of Racism by me is a mistake. It was written rather long ago, trying to grasp out to left-leaners, and with a clear political mistake rather than an intellectual discussion.

I differ between propaganda and conviction. These are two separate things. I'm sorry if my NB article give the impression that this is the NBP official view. No, NBP doesn't view this at all, in any realpolitical nor ideological-political way.