Skadi Forum
 

Welcome to Skadi Forum, the largest Germanic online community forum where you can join over 45,000 members from around the world discussing all things of concern to you. To gain full access to Skadi Forum you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in over 100 topic forums and browse from over 800,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other members from around the world.
  • Post your own images and documents or access from over 70,000 files.
  • Gain access to special insider forums not available to guests.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support. If you have questions about the permissible content, please read the Skadi Forum disclaimer and the Skadi Forum rules.

Go Back   Skadi Forum > > Germanic Heathenry > Heathen Literature
Register FAQ Rules Donate Arcade Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Heathen Literature Discussion of modern literary works from various Heathen authors and scholars relating to integral Germanic Heathen culture, spirituality, mythology, and history; discussion of published Heathen thought, history, and opinion.

"Sorcery and Religion in Ancient Scandinavia" by Varg Vikernes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #21
Irmingot
Senior Member
 
Last Seen: Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2005
Ethnicity: Swedish
Ancestry: Scandinavian
Subrace: Nordid
Country: Sweden
Location: Northern Sweden
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Family: In a steady relationship
Occupation: Craftsman
Politics: None
Religion: Heathen
Posts: 31
Irmingot has earned the respect of peers.

Bah, Varg. Or Hans, or whatever he prefers to call himself these days. How can anyone take him seriously anymore?

I could accept that he distanced himself from his own previous past as a "Satanist". And yes, there are loads of evidence that he called himself a Satanist earlier. He was a wild kid, and everyone has the right to develop and change their views.
Now however, he states that he isn't - and have NEVER BEEN - a "Nazi", something there are even far more evidence to support that he have previously entitled himself. The same with the term "heathen", but nowadays he states that religion is ignorance, and that all religious people are stupid.
The only good thing about our Nordic religion is "its morals", and nothing else. In other words, he has no spiritual interest in heathenism whatsoever, only some vague schizophrenic political ambitions. But oh, I forgot - he isn't interested in politics, and he isn't and have never been a Nazi. It sure is difficult to keep track on this guy and his opinions.

This is a man who actually says he have NEVER done anything that he regrets ("I am not so stupid that I do something I will regret later"), and the explanation for this is obvious: He constantly lies about his past, and constantly denies what he has said and done. If you do, it's easy to never do something you regret, you just deny it - and it never happened. How practical.
And don't get me wrong. Everyone has their right to change their views. But have no respect at all for people that can't admit that they do so, such people deserve nothing but scorn and utter disrespect. It is above all a clear sign of a dubious and weak personality. People who can't openly admit their errors, are weak people.

And what's up with all that he does these days? Calls himself "seidmannen" on T-shirts, make ugly T-shirts with runes, and stupid Romanesque T-shirts with pictures of Norse gods, sell pointless rubbish rip-off books on "sorcery", despite the fact that he is clearly an atheist with nothing but contempt for religion, beside its "political value" - that he again has no interest whatsoever in. Is this man sane?
I am not even going to comment his recent albums. As that's mostly a matter of personal taste. But again, why persist in using Nordic/Heathen themes, when religion is stupid, and when he has no political ambitions? Is the man stupid for real? And what about all the "heathens" actually BUYING this shit, his books, CD's and shirts? Actually giving their money to people saying they are stupid? Some sort of masochism? "Hey idiot, buy this stupid shit - will you?".

To sum things up: Vikernes might have been a quite valuable person a decade ago, nowadays he is just a confusing, boring and predictable angry old man. I can't see why people have any respect whatsoever for him.
Irmingot is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Irmingot For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #22
Alfadur
Senior Member
 
Alfadur's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Friday, June 15th, 2012
Join Date: May 2011
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Scandinavian
Country: Sweden
Gender: Male
Politics: Ethnic Nationalism
Religion: Agnostic
Posts: 680
Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.Alfadur is considered wise by the elders.

Vikernes is quite knowledgeable about black metal music and certain parts of the Norse pagan mythos. But that's all. He is no deep thinker, and certainly no philosopher like his fans seem to think. I like Burzum's music, but Vikernes' entire "Odalist" ideology seems like a tired copy-paste from superior sources. (Although I do agree with some of his ideas, most of them aren't even his). His loud and public conversion from "Satanist" to "Neo-Nazi" to "heathen mystic" smacks of teenage attention-seeking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irmingot View Post
I can't see why people have any respect whatsoever for him.
Because he has "street cred" from burning down ancient churches, stabbing his band-mate, and going to prison. That's mainly the reason why he got so much attention in the first place, and was able to build up a fanbase from that. If not for the media circus about "Satanist murderers" and "Nazi black metallers", a person like Vikernes wouldn't even have a fanclub.
Alfadur is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Alfadur For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #23
Irmingot
Senior Member
 
Last Seen: Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2005
Ethnicity: Swedish
Ancestry: Scandinavian
Subrace: Nordid
Country: Sweden
Location: Northern Sweden
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Family: In a steady relationship
Occupation: Craftsman
Politics: None
Religion: Heathen
Posts: 31
Irmingot has earned the respect of peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
Vikernes is quite knowledgeable about black metal music and certain parts of the Norse pagan mythos. But that's all. He is no deep thinker, and certainly no philosopher like his fans seem to think. I like Burzum's music, but Vikernes' entire "Odalist" ideology seems like a tired copy-paste from superior sources. (Although I do agree with some of his ideas, most of them aren't even his). His loud and public conversion from "Satanist" to "Neo-Nazi" to "heathen mystic" smacks of teenage attention-seeking.


Because he has "street cred" from burning down ancient churches, stabbing his band-mate, and going to prison. That's mainly the reason why he got so much attention in the first place, and was able to build up a fanbase from that. If not for the media circus about "Satanist murderers" and "Nazi black metallers", a person like Vikernes wouldn't even have a fanclub.
Yeah. Well, knowing things about black metal, and/or creating black metal, isn't really something special. There are dozens of teen kids knowing just as much or even more about black metal - and many, many more people, creating far superior music. As with much else, it isn't Vikernes music in itself, that has earned him the respect, but his actions, and most of all - his words, how hollow they may be.
I can acknowledge some albums like Hvis lyset tar oss and Det som engang var as really good music, unique for its time, and a inspiration for many other people and later musicians. But that's about it.

And street cred heh... If there's anything "street cred" about Varg, it's the time he spent in prison. Teen kids going wild isn't really anything that grants you "street cred". And in prison he behaved very well all the time (and that's a good thing, I might add), actually he was an example of how to behave in prison - and no one denies that. But then again, being a "nice fellow" among bad people, isn't earning you any "street cred". So no, he has none, none at all.

Odalism is further on nothing that has anything to do with Varg, I might add. I mind you, he claims that he has NEVER been a heathen, NEVER been a "nazi", and never even been a member of the Heathen Front in first place. I suspect he would even deny having anything to do with HF, if he was asked. And if he says so, it must be true? According to his own logics.

I mean, just look at how he express himself. Some interview ago, he had never been a Nazi, and in the more recent ones (or the most recent, who knows...), it's the same old talk about Nazi helmets and that good old Varg stuff we are used to.

How this man actually passed the "sanity tests" before going to prison, is really a mystery to me. He obviously suffers from some sort(s) of mental problems. Compulsory liar, split personality, borderline just to name a few.
Irmingot is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irmingot For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #24
velvet
Senior Member
 
velvet's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Friday, October 13th, 2017
Join Date: Mar 2009
Status: Available
Ethnicity: German
Ancestry: Northern Germany
Subrace: Faelid
Country: Germany
State: North Rhine-Westphalia
Gender: Female
Age: 43
Zodiac Sign: Sagittarius
Family: Married
Occupation: Sardonic Misanthrope
Politics: Blut und Boden
Religion: Fimbulwinter
Posts: 4,192
velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.velvet is a deity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfadur
Because he has "street cred" from burning down ancient churches, stabbing his band-mate, and going to prison. That's mainly the reason why he got so much attention in the first place, and was able to build up a fanbase from that. If not for the media circus about "Satanist murderers" and "Nazi black metallers", a person like Vikernes wouldn't even have a fanclub.
Think of him whatever you like, but fact is that he first created Black Metal (yes, he was one of the main originators, in fact, without Varg I dont think there would have ever been BM as an own genre) and already had a fan base if you will before all the rest happened.

It's a media sort of twist to turn it the other way round.

E was also not his "band-mate", Varg did merely a bass line recording for them, he was never member of Mayhem.

Also, Varg was made Satanist by the media. He always rejected that term (not very successful because no one wanted to hear that), regardless of what he claimed to be at any given point in time.
__________________
Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

my signature
velvet is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to velvet For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #25
Olavssønn
Senior Member
 
Olavssønn's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Saturday, August 25th, 2012
Join Date: Jul 2011
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Norwegian-Scandinavian
Ancestry: My known ancestry is Norwegian
State: Nordic Union
Location: Västra Värmland
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Politics: Identitarian
Religion: Germanic & Indo-European Heathen
Posts: 374
Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkwin View Post
You can take Vikernes off your list of "persons through which the gods speak". His new book basically says that all religion, including the ancient European ones, are for idiots. Just like he dumped his satanist past, he now has dumped his pagan past.

He indeed claims to have studied on the topic for years, but if this crappy book is the result of this "studies", I'd suggest him to stick to making black metal. While he basically admits in "Germansk mytologi og verdensanskuelse" that he copied the book "Nordisk Mythologi" by Petersen, he now largely copies "The Golden Bough". His own "genious" etymological reconstructions are flawed. Reducing every European myth to the basic plot of "getting the sun back", is stupid.

The size of Vikernes' ego and mouth is far bigger than his IQ. He could have been a spearhead figure, and he probably was at one time a decade ago, but now he's a figure I'd avoid at all cost.

My apologies if I come out extremely negative on this issue, but Germanic traditions and the work done by serious scholars is far too important to be destroyed by hacks.
I must say that I have to agree with much of what you're saying here, especially about his latest book.
I have now read most of it, and I'm dissappointed by much of what seems to me as ignorance on his part in understanding Germanic or Indo-European tradition, and its deeper meanings and function.
I'll see if I can write a longer review one of the next days...
Olavssønn is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Olavssønn For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 21st, 2012   #26
Irmingot
Senior Member
 
Last Seen: Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2005
Ethnicity: Swedish
Ancestry: Scandinavian
Subrace: Nordid
Country: Sweden
Location: Northern Sweden
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Family: In a steady relationship
Occupation: Craftsman
Politics: None
Religion: Heathen
Posts: 31
Irmingot has earned the respect of peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet View Post
Think of him whatever you like, but fact is that he first created Black Metal (yes, he was one of the main originators, in fact, without Varg I dont think there would have ever been BM as an own genre) and already had a fan base if you will before all the rest happened.

It's a media sort of twist to turn it the other way round.

E was also not his "band-mate", Varg did merely a bass line recording for them, he was never member of Mayhem.

Also, Varg was made Satanist by the media. He always rejected that term (not very successful because no one wanted to hear that), regardless of what he claimed to be at any given point in time.
He have indeed called himself a Satanist, regardless of all his later claims of "being made one by Jewish media". Just find some early interviews, and it's no doubt about it. He didn't reject the term Satanist when he for example said that "Jeg er Odins och Satans son" (I am the son of Satan and Odin), just like nowadays - he started rejecting the term afterwards, when he had suddenly changed his mind, and became something else. Then suddenly, the past was changed too. Varg's simple logic: Deny everything, and make up your own truth.

I once again repeat, I think that people have the right to change their minds, but then they can openly say so: "No I am not a Satanist anymore", "No, I am not a Nazi anymore", "No, I am not a Heathen nor an Odinist any longer - I have changed my mind". Instead he goes on with his usual "Jeg har aldri vaert" (I have never been") strategy, as if people couldn't see he's frankly a miserable liar.

"Jeg har aldri" is no magic spell, changing the past and reality. I am a bit confused Vikernes current atheist and religion-is-for-stupid-people attitude allows him to obviously believe this is the case.
Irmingot is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Irmingot For This Useful Post:
Old Monday, January 23rd, 2012   #27
Olavssønn
Senior Member
 
Olavssønn's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Saturday, August 25th, 2012
Join Date: Jul 2011
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Norwegian-Scandinavian
Ancestry: My known ancestry is Norwegian
State: Nordic Union
Location: Västra Värmland
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Politics: Identitarian
Religion: Germanic & Indo-European Heathen
Posts: 374
Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Olavssønn 's opinion is sought out by learned men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irmingot View Post
He have indeed called himself a Satanist, regardless of all his later claims of "being made one by Jewish media". Just find some early interviews, and it's no doubt about it. He didn't reject the term Satanist when he for example said that "Jeg er Odins och Satans son" (I am the son of Satan and Odin), just like nowadays - he started rejecting the term afterwards, when he had suddenly changed his mind, and became something else. Then suddenly, the past was changed too. Varg's simple logic: Deny everything, and make up your own truth.

I once again repeat, I think that people have the right to change their minds, but then they can openly say so: "No I am not a Satanist anymore", "No, I am not a Nazi anymore", "No, I am not a Heathen nor an Odinist any longer - I have changed my mind". Instead he goes on with his usual "Jeg har aldri vaert" (I have never been") strategy, as if people couldn't see he's frankly a miserable liar.

"Jeg har aldri" is no magic spell, changing the past and reality. I am a bit confused Vikernes current atheist and religion-is-for-stupid-people attitude allows him to obviously believe this is the case.
He does actually admit that he's been calling himself a Satanist and a "Nazi" among other things earlier in this article - he also explains why he rejected the term "nazi":

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_..._story07.shtml

I do find it confusing how he will seemingly change his attitude from time to time, even in articles that are written more or less in the same period.
For example, in the link I posted above, he writes that one of the reasons he is not really a "nazi" is that he's not a materialist, even though his interpretations of archaic European traditions in his latest book are obviously very much materialistic!
He has indeed written articles and passages in his earlier books that are less affected by the modern rationalist-materialist approach, but this seems to have changed now.
The reason seems to be that so-called "non-scientific" (as defined by the modern world) stuff is for the lesser evolved races, and to demonstrate how he is a smart and evolved member of the European race, he has adopted a modern atheist approach.
Olavssønn is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Olavssønn For This Useful Post:
Old Monday, January 23rd, 2012   #28
Irmingot
Senior Member
 
Last Seen: Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2005
Ethnicity: Swedish
Ancestry: Scandinavian
Subrace: Nordid
Country: Sweden
Location: Northern Sweden
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Family: In a steady relationship
Occupation: Craftsman
Politics: None
Religion: Heathen
Posts: 31
Irmingot has earned the respect of peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olavsson View Post
He does actually admit that he's been calling himself a Satanist and a "Nazi" among other things earlier in this article - he also explains why he rejected the term "nazi":

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_..._story07.shtml

I do find it confusing how he will seemingly change his attitude from time to time, even in articles that are written more or less in the same period.
For example, in the link I posted above, he writes that one of the reasons he is not really a "nazi" is that he's not a materialist, even though his interpretations of archaic European traditions in his latest book are obviously very much materialistic!
He has indeed written articles and passages in his earlier books that are less affected by the modern rationalist-materialist approach, but this seems to have changed now.
The reason seems to be that so-called "non-scientific" (as defined by the modern world) stuff is for the lesser evolved races, and to demonstrate how he is a smart and evolved member of the European race, he has adopted a modern atheist approach.
I don't know in what sense he uses the word materialistic, but if he means it in the words true sense, when speaking of philosophy/worldview and related matters, he is indeed a materialist - his latest book proves this beyond doubt.
Being a materialist in this sense is, as you probably know, when you deny the existence of a numinous reality, beyond the profane material reality that we can measure, taste, smell, see, hear, feel etc. It's a common misconception that materialism is some sort of obsession with consumerism, and some sort of hedonist luxury.

I don't know really what he means by articles such as A Bard's Tale: Part VIII - Religion or Reason either, what his point really is. He speaks of religion as superstition, and how it's not real, not valid etc. - and still toss in phrases like: "We need a modern scientific worldview resting on a foundation made up of the Pagan values and ideals; loyalty, wisdom, courage, love, discipline, honesty, intelligence, beauty, responsibility, health and strength.". Why dabble with heathen religion at all, if this is his point of view? And, if the religion is built on ignorance and stupidity, why should anyone stick to its values? If it holds no truth at all, then there's no point in sticking to the values either. Because then there is no Valhalla for the brave elite, and there is no Helheim for the common man and cowards, and there is no Nåstrond for traitors and their likes. So why? I really can't see his point here. This is just plain humanism, egalitarian nihilism - desperately trying to find some sort of moral ground.

He is frankly nothing more than a materialist and humanist (and no, not humanist like in "humane"; but in the philosophy of humanism).
Irmingot is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Irmingot For This Useful Post:
Old Saturday, January 28th, 2012   #29
Kauz R. Waldher
Senior Member
 
Kauz R. Waldher's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
Join Date: Nov 2011
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Subrace: Don't know
Country: Vinland
State: Pennsylvania
Gender: Male
Family: Single adult
Posts: 424
Kauz R. Waldher 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Kauz R. Waldher 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Kauz R. Waldher 's opinion is sought out by learned men.Kauz R. Waldher 's opinion is sought out by learned men.

Yep, I agree with Olavsson and Irmingot. All the way. Only except he never said that he was "never" a neo-nazi. He said he was. He denied Satanism though. But the whole atheist thing made me lose respect for him. A TON of respect.
I read that he includes the lyrics for the new record "Umskiptar" in english ONLY inside his new book. So, you have to buy his book to get the lyrics. For now anyway, obviously that'll change. He hates capitalism? I don't think so. He's a capitalist and an atheist. ALSO, he bashes anyone who doesn't have blonde hair and blue eyes, claiming they are all of a "mixed race". EVEN THOUGH he has brownish hair! My hair is as blonde as his, but do I list "blonde" as my hair color? No. It pissed me off when he made that comment.
He thinks blonde hair and blue eyes means "superior". It does not. Though i'm in agreement of it's significance and importance to preserve, it does not equal superior. And to say it's more beautiful is false as well. Though I personally believe that it is, many others do not necessarily. That is an opinion.
I was going to buy Varg's new book ... but I don't think I will now.
__________________
"The mystery and secret of Wotan is not that "knowledge" of him is passed along through clandestine cults or even through the re-discovery of old books and texts--but rather that such knowledge is actually encoded in a mysterious way in the DNA, in the very genetic material, of those who are descended from him." - Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness
Kauz R. Waldher is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old Saturday, January 28th, 2012   #30
Forest_Dweller
Senior Member
 
Forest_Dweller's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Friday, September 2nd, 2016
Join Date: Mar 2010
Status: Available
Ethnicity: English
Ancestry: Western Europe, Britain, Ireland
Country: England
State: Lancashire
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Family: Single adult
Politics: Traditionalist, anti-capitalist
Religion: Heathen
Posts: 535
Forest_Dweller is noble of speech.Forest_Dweller is noble of speech.

Sigh... Varg Vikernes sees the gods as architypes and as symbolic deities reflective of the nordic soul. He does not take norse mythology literally but rather sees it as an expression of the ideals, morality and spiritual truths of the Germanic peoples. He sees our old ways as a way of life to live by alongside science and rationality and also as a way of preserving our identity and unifying Germanics as a people.

If I was to label him as anything I would put him under the category of a Wotanist. Although there is a number of things I disagree with him on, I think he is probably one of the few people who will give us a purer and less biased representation of our mythology.
Forest_Dweller is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Review of "Lords of Chaos" by Varg Vikernes (6/2004) Zyklop Music & Hymns 15 Saturday, October 17th, 2009 08:40 AM
"Lords Of Chaos" Movie on Varg Vikernes Schlosser Film, TV, & Performing Arts 2 Saturday, October 17th, 2009 08:28 AM
Phenotype and Valhalla (split from "New Varg Vikernes Interview") Vikingland Germanic Heathenry 19 Thursday, May 31st, 2007 10:48 PM
Varg Vikernes: "Perþ" Blutwölfin Literature & Book Reviews 0 Friday, September 30th, 2005 08:01 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Skadi.net.
Except where otherwise noted, all content on this site is licensed.
[ Disclaimer ] [ Contact Us ] [ Privacy Statement ]

Powered by Skadi.net  Creative Commons License

Page generated in 0.64518 seconds with 16 queries