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Philosophy Investigate the nature of reality, knowledge, and values, and discuss the content of ideological ideas.

Unconscious/Organic vs Conscious/Inorganic Identitarianism

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Old Friday, March 24th, 2017   #11
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Right. To a degree kindness to animals is less theriophilia than it is taboo.

Are you aware that in medieval and early modern Europe most sailors and fishermen were unable to swim?
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Old Friday, March 24th, 2017   #12
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No, I wasn't aware. Do you have any source for it? There are lots medieval and pre-medieval sources describing people swimming. Even Beowulf is said to have attended a swimming contest at one point. How common this skill was, however, is hard to say. I still think the same old proverbial river cannot be swum across twice, though.
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Old Friday, March 24th, 2017   #13
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Well the Orford Wildman was considered strange because he could swim, though he was caught in a fishing village. And in the Napoleonic era most men in the British navy could not swim this is why drowning was so common.

Human swimming is not innate like most mammals: in apes the instinct for the old tetrapod walk (which is a modified swim) was lost. Swimming in any human population other than ecological specialist communities is therefore rare: even boat users can avoid contact with the water. Though references to swimming go back centuries, the sea was sufficiently "foreign" that Europeans arriving by sea were amazed by native Hawaiian surfers, Japanese pearl divers, and diving Sea Gypsies. Actually the Norse were probably the first people to feel a real affinity for the Atlantic Ocean. Europe is a continental landmass the natives took to the sea late.
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Old Saturday, March 25th, 2017   #14
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In 1950 it is estimated there were no more than 20,000 non-white residents in Britain.

‘the concept of Black Britons met no resistance in Britain’



Nonsesense, just look at the 1958 Notting Hill race riots & Enoch Powell's Rivers of blood speech in the 1960s. Interestingly polls at the time showed most people at the time agreed with what Enoch said. Yet he was slain by the press, who even decried as false the part of his speech about an old white woman as the only white on her street.


'Please, justify the notion that British media glorifies Thai people or foreigners because this is a fundamental misunderstanding of British multiculturalism.'

More nonsense, could you imagine the British media saying there is no such thing as indigenous Japanese?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tons-far-right

Why did the media cover up the racial nature of the 2011 riots after a black youth was killed by police?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oixzxxaMtQ0

If it was white youths it would have been all over the media!

Btw the former head of the BBC has already admitted their bias.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...-s-biased.html

It’s rather myopic to reduce English identity to binge drinking and football.
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Old Saturday, March 25th, 2017   #15
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In Germany there are no Black Germans: this is not about politics or anything, the idea is held by everyone, including Black people in Germany, to be absurd. In Britain everyone uses the word Black Briton without a hint of irony, even wayciss. Even Sorbs must be foreign in Germany though they are indigenous. Whereas Britain was pluralistic from the start, all NW Euro peoples indigenous to Great Britain at the beginning yes, but unifying "Britishness" was invented as a matter of jingo and it literally could not be ethnically exclusive. Britiushness is also implicitly English-dominant, to the point many people inside and outside England use the Union Jack and St George´s Cross interchangeably as English symbols. So the English have a self-conceptual problem.

Do you honestly not understand what I was getting at?

And you haven´t refuted what I said: that multiculturalism in Britain co-exists with brain dead British jingo because of a widespread civic nationalism. So that multiculturalism is a part of the British psyche and was in a way since the Empire days of civilising the natives with Anglican, British civilisation as the mission of empire. Times change but some values remain constant.
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Old Saturday, March 25th, 2017   #16
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It's good to have a topic about this, because it's a discussion that touches upon the core of folkish (or identitarian) thought. We are in opposition to the current political-intellectual climate because it is anti-Germanic. But most of the people we argue against are Germanics. So there seems to be a difference between 'being Germanic' and 'acting Germanic'. Most people are perhaps ethnically Germanic, but do not show to be Germanic: they do not possess that Germanic quality. So concerning the following...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
Well if you have to thaink about what you are then you aren't, right?
...it's all about that ancient search for self knowledge, the Delphic "Know thyself" or, more in tune with your question, the nietzschean "Become who you are!"

Politics is the cultivation of a people's inner being. It arises as a result of human action and isn't given as such. The potential of a people to create is thus more determining of its character than what it has actually created. I have tried to put forward this position before in the context of organized religion. So, from an aristotelian point of view, there is a difference between what we are in potential and what we are in actuality.

Lothrop Stoddard started his article on Pan-Turanism with the following words: "In practical politics the vital thing is not what men really are, but what they think they are" (Source). This demonstrates the challenge for every folkish movement: to transform the object of its political goals into a subject, or in your words, to become conscious of the unconscious. Of course the outcome can differ. Stoddard gives the example of the Bulgarians who, in his time, had shifted from a predominantly Slavic consciousness to a predominantly Turanic consciousness. I would therefore extend Stoddards argument and ask why 'what they really are' is any more real than 'what they think they are'. This doesn't mean that we should take the two apart, but rather that together they create a single ethno-policital reality.

The folkish philosopher Max Wundt was aware of this. It's worth quoting him in full:

"Die völkische Weltanschauung soll ein Spiegel sein, in dem ein Volk sich selber erkennt. Zwei Bedingungen sollte sie daher erfüllen. Einmal muß sie Ausdruck des natürlichen Wesens dieses Volkes sein, vom Blute seines Blutes beseelt. Sie muß also ihrem Ursprung nach ein Sproß des echten Volkstums sein. Und dann muß sie zweitens auch eine gestaltende Wirkung auf dieses Volkstum ausgeübt haben und fortan ausüben. Sie muß in dem Volkstum wirklich Gestalt gewinnen, indem sie nicht bloß zur Beschäftigung einiger Gelehrter dient, sondern die innere und äußere Lebensform dieses Volker wirklich gestaltet. In dieser Gestaltung wird einem Volke seine Weltanschauung wirklich objektiv, sie stellt sich ihm anschaulich gegenüber, so daß es sich in ihr erkennen kann" (Wundt, Deutsche Weltanschauung, Grundzüge völkischen Denkens, 1926, p. 12).

So the goal of a folkish movement is twofold. Firstly, it should be an expression of the essence of the people; it should arise naturally out of its being. Secondly, it should form the people accordingly and become an active historical and political force. In your words, the first goal is about discovering the unconscious, the work of scholars like Wundt states, but it's also about what exists as a given within a people. Scholars merely find it. But the second goal is about rising to the level of consciousness, to actively form the people according to its own inner laws that have been discovered. One can discuss about the methods, but one cannot escape the fact that this is what any folkish movement has to do, to avoid falling in a state of inertia. It is therefor not a matter of unconsciousness versus consciousness but about harmony between the two, 'to become what we are'. If this were not the case, we wouldn't even have to discuss these topics in the first place. The very notions of decadence and degeneracy arise out of the possibility to lose consciousness of the unconscious; which has in fact happened.
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Old Saturday, March 25th, 2017   #17
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The term Black British is an absurdity, just like Black German. It’s something propagated by the media. My English grandfather every time he heard it would say ‘there is no such thing!’

Multiculturalism is not a part of the British psyche, see my last post which shows that most Brtis were against it. Brexit may even be seen as a manifestation of this.

I understand what you’re saying I just think it’s BS.
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Old Saturday, March 25th, 2017   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
In Germany there are no Black Germans: this is not about politics or anything, the idea is held by everyone, including Black people in Germany, to be absurd. In Britain everyone uses the word Black Briton without a hint of irony, even wayciss. Even Sorbs must be foreign in Germany though they are indigenous.
I don’t know how you arrive at this fortunate impression of Germans but it’s sadly quite wrong. It’s probably not more unlikely for the average modern German (below 40) to accept Blacks as Germans, than it is for the average Brit.

We have quite a few Blacks and MENAs in our “national” sports teams, for example and they’re certainly seen as “German” or what being German means to the average German. In Germany they’re merely not called “Black Germans” because “race doesn’t exist, at all”, even less than in the Anglosphere.
As for Sorbs, I’ve never met any, so I can’t really judge and there are only about 25.000 left. They’re probably not culturally different enough to be perceived as foreign, by the average German, in any case.

Both Brits and Germans are equally brainwashed, just like the rest of Western Europe but they’re still our people and always will be, quite simply because one can’t change one’s ethnical identity, merely because one wants too.
I get the feeling, that your impression of Europe outside Britain is too favourable and that of your own people too negative, than is warranted by reality.
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Old Wednesday, April 5th, 2017   #19
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While I'm at it I cannot stress how opposed to patriotism I am. Truly it is revolting. Do you know, anti-racism is only one half of our problems. The other is "Had we not fought Hitler, we would be overrun by foreigners". Someone waves a Union Jack, what does that likely say about them?

Meanwhile new regimes scrap the old flag and make a new one: because going back to year zero, means there is only a future to look forward to.

In the Cold War patriots were big on anti-Communism, but what we have now is worse for us. Under Communism the Russians were not sentenced for refusing to sell cakes to homosexuals, nor did abortionists advertise on the television. In a Cold War context I am firmly on the side of Communism because at least it was a sane leftism, instead of an insane parody of leftism where workers rights has been removed from agendas.
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