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Psychology, Behavior & Neuroscience Forum dedicated to the mental processes and behavior, the emotional and behavioral characteristics or attitude of an individual or group and all phenomena of the mind, the conscious self and beyond.

View Poll Results: Whats your personality after the test? http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/sheldontest.html
Viscerotonia 5 5.15%
Somatotonia 13 13.40%
Cerebrotonia 39 40.21%
Viscerotonia-Somatotonia 10 10.31%
Viscerotonia-Cerebrotonia 3 3.09%
Somatotonia-Cerebrotonia 27 27.84%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

Kretschmer and Sheldon: Test Your Personality (Viscerotonia, Somatotonia, Cerebrotonia)

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Old Sunday, April 16th, 2006   #1
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Arrow Kretschmer and Sheldon: Test Your Personality (Viscerotonia, Somatotonia, Cerebrotonia)

A short test inspired by Sheldon to begin with:

My result was:
Quote:
Viscerotonia = 13
Somatotonia = 13
Cerebrotonia = 22
Another test, being almost like a short MBTI with the most crucial distinctions:

Quote:
Temperament Score
Idealist 7
Rationalist 17
Traditionalist 4
Hedonist 2
Your temperament type is Rationalist.
If you have results from the MBTI test (me INTP) or Enneagramm (me Investigator), please share, would be interesting to compare the results.


See also "The Theory of Temperaments", from Ernst Kretschmer's Physique and Character

Its worth to mention that Kretschmer had, especially through his work in a clinic, many contacts to degenerated schizoid forms, which might have influenced his view too. While he has admiration for the high function variants of schizothymes, he still prefers zyklothymes personally because of their warmness and in indirect discussions with Günther (and Nordicism) he defended the idea of mixtures being more productive in his later work.

In comparison with Sheldon, Kretschmer's Schizothymic personality would include both more than the Jung Introvert or Sheldon Cerebrotonic, though Kretschmer later invented the viscoes temperament as third category, which has a strong perseveration and is more anaesthetic, even dull associated with the athletic-mesomorphic body build. However, thats still rather close to his schizothymic category, as is the Somatotonic, depending on the exact emphasis still rather schizothymic, really an independent peak or even rather a very active zyklothymic (hypomanic) from my point of view.

Quote:
Ernst Kretschmer - German psychiatrist who attempted to correlate body build and physical constitution with personality characteristics and mental illness. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9046234

Other threads dealing with that subject:

Kretschmer and Sheldon


Somatopsychical correlations

MBTI Types (for comparison)

Creative Genius and Psychosis

Introversion or Extraversion as "Progressive" Tendencies

Links for Sheldon for which is more in English on the www obviously:

Sheldon's Body Personality
Somatotypes
William Sheldon's Body and Temperament Types
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Last edited by Agrippa : Monday, April 17th, 2006 at 02:47 AM.
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Old Sunday, April 16th, 2006   #2
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

My Scores

Viscerotonia = 13
Somatotonia = 12
Cerebrotonia = 23
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Old Sunday, April 16th, 2006   #3
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Your Scores

Viscerotonia = 13
Somatotonia = 15
Cerebrotonia = 20


MBTI - ENFP


Enneagramm....

Type 1 - 6
Type 2 - 3
Type 3 - 4
Type 4 - 5
Type 5 - 5
Type 6 - 2
Type 7 - 5
Type 8 - 6
Type 9 - 0
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #4
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Arrow Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Okay, I'm probably too brain dead and tired right now to comment here with any degree of coherence, but bugger it.... I'll just spew some thoughts out and hope that they make even a little sense... ....

Quote:
The problem is coming from a definition of introverted which refers mostly to the behaviour, both your idealised view on it as well as how you are really acting in a social environment.
I don't agree with this definition.... and it seems, neither do you since you later said....
Quote:
If we consider intoversion being the dominance of the inner world over the outer one in the personal approach which is,
This definition I agree with. Introversion/extroversion are concepts which describe an individual's way of relating to and understanding their environment.... with an introvert this environment will more often be an internal, abstract, intangible one, and for the extrovert, it will more often be an external, practical, tangible one.

However, I don't believe that this distinction will make one type more intelligent nor analytical than the other.....
Quote:
I was under the impression that introverts are not more analytical...
No, introverts are much more analytical,
Analysing one's internal environment is not the only subject suitable for analysis. Which leads me to this...
Quote:
Without analysing your internal, you can't truly analyse the external but rather being influenced by it, adapting to it, merge with it.
True, but on the same token, without analysing your external environment you cannot turly analyse, with any degree of relative perspective or relevance, your internal environment. Who we are is always relative to those we are surrounded by, by necessity, as characteristics are always judged by comparing an individual to others, and assessing how they rate compared with others (or to the norm as it were). Eg, a "tall" will only considered to be so when compared with those who are shorter. Introduce the tall person to a new population of taller people and they will become short.

So you can think that you are A and come into a new external environment and realise that you are really B. Yet someone who understands and has been more concerned with their external environment may be able to more clearly see how the external environment (including other people) can affect their own sense of self, and perhaps be less easily manipulated by it?

Imo, our external environment, far from being shallow, acts as a mirror, reflecting our internal enviroment. Every perception we have of another person or thing says something about us.... as do the people in our lives and the house we live in, the jobs we have etc etc.

By analysing our external environments we learn more about who we are. By focusing on the internal for most of the time we only see a small part of the picture.

Through our relationships with other people we can discover new or hidden things about ourselves... yet the introvert is not so interested in relationships with others, preferring solitude and isolation.

Have you ever noticed that people tend to complain the most about characteristics in other people that they themselves strongly possess? I see this all the time. Its like people don't want to see something negative about themselves so they just notice it in others, and despise it in them in an attempt to erradicate it from their lives. Often when that issue has been resolved for them, they no longer have conflicts with the person displaying their own hated traits. It becomes irrelevant to them.

Just a few thoughts. Hope I made some sense.
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #5
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Test 1
Viscerotonia = 9
Somatotonia = 19
Cerebrotonia = 20

Test 2
Idealist = 11
Rationalist = 9
Hedonist = 6
Traditionalist = 4

Your temperament type is Idealist.
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #6
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Viscerotonia = 13
Somatotonia = 11
Cerebrotonia = 24


Temperament Score
Idealist 16
Rationalist 10
Traditionalist 4
Hedonist 0
Your temperament type is Idealist.



INTJ



Type One
The Reformer

Type Five
The Investigator

Type Six
The Loyalist
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #7
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Temperament Score


Idealist 9
Rationalist 12
Traditionalist 2
Hedonist 7
Your temperament type is Rationalist.
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #8
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AW: Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

First of all we must distinguish between various subtypes of both schizothymy and zyklothymy, some being mentioned under the links I posted, and we shoudnt forget about the fact that most people being rather in between those categories, having elements of both - in the body build as well as in the psyche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridie
This definition I agree with. Introversion/extroversion are concepts which describe an individual's way of relating to and understanding their environment.... with an introvert this environment will more often be an internal, abstract, intangible one, and for the extrovert, it will more often be an external, practical, tangible one.
Right, agreed with.

Quote:
However, I don't believe that this distinction will make one type more intelligent nor analytical than the other.....
Introverts are more intelligent on average and schizothymes generally more analytical. However, its rather the way they use their intelligence and act in a larger framework.
In the zyklothymic spectrum, the most talented people are usually hypomanics, they can be highly valuable for a group, especially in combination with schizothymic traits, otherwise they will just go from one adventure, idea, job, socialising etc. to the other without consistence, self-reflexivity and analytical abilities. What makes them special is rather the energy and uncomplicated approach to other people, though they can adapt to many social environments in the higher intellectual levels leadership qualities.
Schizothymes can be very good adapted to their social environment too, but its usually really about THEIRs, in others they might be again the rather shy and reserved people again. In the area they learned to cope with, with intelligence, strategies, routine etc. and therefore might seem quite "extraverted". But this "extraversion" is usually not the love for people and socialising for itself and oftentimes their approach to other people might then be rather cragged, wooden or formally, especially if the situation is out of their used social environment.

Quote:
Analysing one's internal environment is not the only subject suitable for analysis. Which leads me to this...
If people do this only, they might become pathological cases. That are the extreme hypersensitive categories, many of them being poets, writers and simply dreamers. Thats the hyperaesthetic category with a limited control of the own emotions and perceptions. Its an extreme in the schizothyme category.

Quote:
True, but on the same token, without analysing your external environment you cannot turly analyse, with any degree of relative perspective or relevance, your internal environment.
Right, but schizothymes are usually fitter to deal with an environment too, zyklothymes are just more efficient in their way in a social environment which is their focus, main area of interest.

The best zyklothymic scientists are usually those which are empirical and oftentimes even able to theorise it, some great scientists came out of this spectrum. But usually they had a schizothymic component, because scientists which are truly innovative almost always have some sort of autistic tendency, even if they are fully social integrated and everything, without making an or many areas of interest to a central focus in life, they won't achieve too much otherwise.

Quote:
Who we are is always relative to those we are surrounded by, by necessity, as characteristics are always judged by comparing an individual to others, and assessing how they rate compared with others (or to the norm as it were).
Same with introversion. An "extraverted" schizothymic individual might still be "introverted" in comparison to a hypomanic zyklothyme.

Quote:
So you can think that you are A and come into a new external environment and realise that you are really B. Yet someone who understands and has been more concerned with their external environment may be able to more clearly see how the external environment (including other people) can affect their own sense of self, and perhaps be less easily manipulated by it?
Yes. But there is the big difference between schizothymic and zyklothymic biographies. The first can get really stamped at one point in life, they are usually much "more open" than zyklothymes, but their internal life and tendency towards fanatism in many areas can lead to a later narrowing of their view.
Zyklothymes on the other hand are never that open, they dont get that much stamped by their environment, they just react to "things as they come" in an almost instinctive-emotional way, with a very practical-personal approach usually.

Whats typical for schizothymes is, that they are often excellent, logical, understand a lot...in their area of interest. But they might forget about other things, personal considerations, relatives, friends, job, money etc. So you can often see schizothymic people which are absolutely marvellous and effective in their area, but lack interest and abilities in others. They really concentrate energies rather than constantly spraying it around...

Thats why they can be more effective and group oriented too. If the group is their focus, whats usually the case in traditional and ordered societies, they will work for it too, even if being in their personal area very "individual". Once they understood and accept goals, ideals, rules, they are the hardest defenders, but at the same time if not, the hardest enemies of it. So usually being the leading element in both extremes, practically always.

Zyklothymes on the other side are always prone "to forget" principles which are not socially integrated in their daily life, considerations, limits, etc. They might defend a traditional way, being rather conservative, but just in the sense of: "We dont know it, we dont like it." To lock of their close social environment from outside disturbance or influence. Not to defend a principle rather than the "peace of the group", the sociability and cosiness and because "it is like it is, was, will be..." If something is coming friendly and coaxing, addressing their social needs, they might be lost immediately...

Quote:
Imo, our external environment, far from being shallow, acts as a mirror, reflecting our internal enviroment. Every perception we have of another person or thing says something about us.... as do the people in our lives and the house we live in, the jobs we have etc etc.
Thats true for Schizothymes rather, because they think more in principles and categories. Zyklothymes are "more natural" in their approach with a low persevaration and high sensing.

Quote:
By analysing our external environments we learn more about who we are. By focusing on the internal for most of the time we only see a small part of the picture.
Right, but thats necessary. Because without a filter and concentration, you are not able to solve complex issues nor being truly analytical. Thats why more creative scientists being rather NT-rationals, schizothymic.
A zyklothymic lives more from a moment to the next, might have fun here, be sad there, plan small things in advance, but a true life plan or something going even beyond the own life can be - almost only - transported by religion and personal-emotional considerations (direct relatives f.e.).

Quote:
Through our relationships with other people we can discover new or hidden things about ourselves... yet the introvert is not so interested in relationships with others, preferring solitude and isolation.
What typical-extreme Viscerotonia -Zyklothymes have is something which is already Sociophilia like some called it. Some more unfriendly people called that "an empty shell which needs to constantly view in the mirror of other personalities for knowing that he is still existing". Typically such people can never be good leaders or innovators, their heroism, if existing at all, is again one of personal devotedness. But thats the extreme...

Quote:
Have you ever noticed that people tend to complain the most about characteristics in other people that they themselves strongly possess? I see this all the time. Its like people don't want to see something negative about themselves so they just notice it in others, and despise it in them in an attempt to erradicate it from their lives. Often when that issue has been resolved for them, they no longer have conflicts with the person displaying their own hated traits. It becomes irrelevant to them.
Thats in fact typical for people which are not truly self-critical and tend to be rather extraverted. However, another question in such cases would be if they have a higher goal by saying so, being just hypocritical for having a better prestige because they have low self-esteem and think of others perceiving them friendlier than or if they really dont know.

One of the most extreme people of schizothymic (already rather schizoid-close to Schizophrenia) and zyklothymic temperament in literature being Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Though Quixote is in a way ridiculed and a sick personality, he still has some kind of typical heroism, a tragic one which already failed. Sancho Panza, though not having too much ideals himself, is a loyal servant and friend on his side, being practical and clever in his way, but for sure not intellectual. Its a classic description and the artistic form they had too:





Nobody could have thought of them being in the other's body. Just imagine the nervous, noble and aloof idealist in the body of Sancho Panza and the sedate, pragmatic but in his way naive helper in the one of the Don.

Under Roman "emperors" Vitellius was one of the few Pyknics with zyklothymic temperament, his biography is quite typical:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitellius

Lets hear what Shakespeare, who knew the human nature(s!) very well said as Caesar about the intelligent, energetic and more pronounced schizothymes:
Quote:
Cæsar. Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men, and such as sleep a-nights:
Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look,
He thinks too much; such men are dangerous.
Antony. Fear him not, Cæsar, he's not dangerous:
He is a noble Roman, and well given.
Cæsar. Would he were fatter; but I fear him not:
Yet if my name were liable to fear,
I do not know the man I should avoid
So soon as that spare Cassius. He reads much;
He is a great observer; and he looks
Quite through the deeds of men. He loves no plays,
As thou dost, Antony; he hears no music:
Seldom he smiles, and smiles in such a sort,
As if he mock'd himself, and scorn'd his spirit,
That could be mov'd to smile at any thing.
Such men as he be never at heart's ease,
Whilst they behold a greater than themselves;
And therefore are they very dangerous.
I rather tell thee what is to be fear'd
Than what I fear; for always I am Cæsar.
Come on my right hand, for this ear is deaf,
And tell me truly what thou think'st of him."
http://absoluteshakespeare.com/guide...ters_essay.htm

A schizothyme might even risk his life for an ideal, his heart can be set in fire by ideas and if he is balanced and intelligent, he looks through most other humans as if they are out of glass. With the exception of his own kind obviously, since they are good at building up an facade like himself...

If they are educated proper and get the right informations, they will take the right measures and make the right decisions without being too much influenced by emotions, nor will they lose their path. Thats something you can't await from a (typical) zyklothyme, their Idealism is personal, higher Idealism quite foreign to them - only if a culture as a whole appraises them, they follow too like they always do. This tendency to follow and adapt socially makes them unable to be truly creative or effective in many areas, but at the same time allows them to survive difficult situations better as long as other personalities do whats necessary in a given society. On their own they would be lost in group selection. But again, they can be effective in their way for a group, as long as they are not too much nor in charge.
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Old Monday, April 17th, 2006   #9
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

Viscerotonia = 15
Somatotonia = 9
Cerebrotonia = 24

Not sure about some of the answers though.
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Old Tuesday, April 18th, 2006   #10
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Re: Kretschmer and Sheldon 2

For a simple thumbnail sketch of the various Somatotypes and their relation to each other, click here.
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