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Comparative Religion Discuss religion and spirituality in general, other forms of religion and spirituality not mentioned above, or the systematic comparison of the doctrines and practices of the world's religions.

Is Religion Strictly a Personal Matter? Should It Be?

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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #1
Siebenbürgerin
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Is Religion Strictly a Personal Matter? Should It Be?

Do you think religion is stricty a personal issue? Should it be? Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion? Should it be taught in schools? Should it have any bearing on what is considered a crime? If you had your state, what role would you give to religion there? Would you leave it up to each person and their families to choose living according to the religious ways they wish, or would you impose a certain religion on the population? Please discuss anything else relevant to this theme.
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Do you think religion is stricty a personal issue?
Absolutely.

Quote:
Should it be?
Absolutely.

Quote:
Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion?
I wouldn't like that very much.

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Should it be taught in schools?
No, school is for education and activities. Church is not in school.

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Would you leave it up to each person and their families to choose living according to the religious ways they wish, or would you impose a certain religion on the population?
One thing I have learned, is ya can't make someone do something they just don't wanna. You couldn't force religion on people in my opinion.
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Do you think religion is strictly a personal issue? Should it be? Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion?
Religion is a good thing. It binds people together and instills a sense of common culture and collective purpose.

Religion should never come into politics, or law and order, but I can see it being a healthy part of children's lives as long as it is presented as only a cultural entity instead of a dogmatic certainty.

I am not a Christian (I was raised CofE for goodness sake), but I do see a lot of great things in the teachings of the character which is Jesus.
Those stories and fables have a lot to teach us and our children, and can come a long way in making our children understand our basic laws and customs.

I believe that our children should not be taught that 'God is dead, long live Science' as it is destroying something which science just fails terribly to replace. I am never amazed when people who hold liberal or socialist values also declare being atheist.

It seems they do not have the capability to be human anymore, but that is another thread.

But with me saying all of this, I do not suggest that it should just be the teachings of Christ which dominate our children's curriculum. I also understand the great worth of being taught about our 'pagan' past.

So, the question of whether religion is a private matter? I don't think it can be. I certainly think everyone has their own intimate ideas and hopes about their religious beliefs, but they all had to start somewhere, and perhaps schools could be the ones to instil the basics of religion to subsidise what their families are also discussing with them.
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #4
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Folk, nation state and religion should be mutually reinforcing and the role religion should play here is to reinforce group consciousness in very much the same way common rituals did in close-knit tribes.

This means that, ideally, religion should be coextensive with folk and nation, forming a perfect three-fold unity without external loyalties. This also means that it should be taught in schools. It should not include hard definitions of crime since that would deny the state the opportunity to commit such crimes if necessary and, more generally, the religion should be sufficiently vague in its political implications to allow for dynamic manipulation according to present needs.

What would be strictly necessary is nothing more than unconditional commitment to folk and nation enshrined in this religion in such a way that their authority over individual lives is seen as divinely just. Branching off from there, a plurality of religious expressions should exist in order to account for the vast complexity of modern societies as well as basic differences in human quality. For example, an individual with boundless will power and creative energy can not be chained to the same spiritual concepts as a lazybones who will do nothing at all without being compelled.
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Do you think religion is stricty a personal issue?
It isn't and has never been, as organised religion is a very easy way of controlling illiterate masses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Should it be?
Yes it should

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion?
Enforced no as that only takes away the true meaning, you can't force people to believe, and it is pretty pointless to force people to do rituals they don't believe in, however an official religion is good and the following of that religion should be encouraged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Should it be taught in schools?
No, too much chance to meddle

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Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Should it have any bearing on what is considered a crime?
Difficult here the state religion's ethics and morals should form the backbone of the judicial system but no dispensation should be given for people of other religions.

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Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
If you had your state, what role would you give to religion there? Would you leave it up to each person and their families to choose living according to the religious ways they wish, or would you impose a certain religion on the population? Please discuss anything else relevant to this theme.
I would not impose but I would strongly encourage. Also I think it is very important to keep the state and church separate.
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #6
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Do you think religion is stricty a personal issue?
I think it should be a personal issue. It is the encouraged installation of a set of values, but the question is, who's? The children do not have the experience to make a good decision yet. These days they teach the liberal values at school also.
It would be better if all Germanics were in the same religion which focused on preserving its own community. However, it is not realistic to think that all the Germanics will join the same religion.

Quote:
Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion?
It could be an official religion for a Germanic country, but it leaves opportunity for power abuse. It would only be official, not mandatory.

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Should it be taught in schools?
It could be an optional part of schools in a Germanic country as mild reinforcement. It could be home or private schooling elsewhere.

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Should it have any bearing on what is considered a crime?
No. It should only concern morals and group identity. The moral values would then reinforce state punishment.

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Would you leave it up to each person and their families to choose living according to the religious ways they wish, or would you impose a certain religion on the population?
There would be no imposing, since government only needs a 50% approval, or the media appearance of it.

Quote:
Please discuss anything else relevant to this theme.
Most Protestant organizations in the US follow the New World liberal ideology. People need to pay close attention to the objectives of the organization, and not blindly follow the religion.

Bush helped his conservative election chances by being seen attending church every week. Palin is also strongly religious.
It is the liberals (socialists) like Lennon, who tend to be atheist.

The earliest religions in Babylon were made so that people would not protest their 10% taxes by giving them some general moral laws. Later on, some countries in Europe used this same ideology for state religions and 10% taxation with fewer rebellions.

Last edited by Leonhardt : Monday, October 6th, 2008 at 03:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #7
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Old Monday, October 6th, 2008   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
Do you think religion is stricty a personal issue? Should it be?
Not at all. Our word 'religion' comes from the Old French religion, meaning "religious community." Historically religion has always been an integral part of a community. Modern attempts to turn every person into a religiously autonomous entity are, in my opinion, just a symptom of the social atomization that is tearing the West apart.

Quote:
Or should it be enforced by the state or encouraged in some way, like by having an official religion?
Quote:
Should it be taught in schools?
Quote:
Should it have any bearing on what is considered a crime?
I would only be in favor of any of these if the 'state' were synonymous with a people and the state religion was the people's folk religion.

Quote:
If you had your state, what role would you give to religion there?
If I had a state it would be a feudal Heathen kingdom, of course.
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Old Tuesday, October 7th, 2008   #9
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Religion is not a individual thing, nor should it be to a certain extent.

Take me for an example: I'm an Odinist and identify with other Odinists and Asatruar though my individual interpretation of the lore my slightly differ to that of others.

Heathenry was not anti-social and should not be in this day and age either. A Blot is never as good without other folk present, the more the merrier!

There should be no state religion, especially if it's multinational. Once things turn multinational it interfers in international relations eg Jihads and Crusades. Loyalty then lies not with the state, but in a universal faith.
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Old Tuesday, October 7th, 2008   #10
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Is Religion Strictly...Personal......? Should it Be ?

The state can mandate practises and always has, but it has no power to mandate beliefs. The Roman persecution of Christians was not directed at the Christian FAITH, but at the refusal of the Christians to sacrifice to the deified Roman emperor. The Romans tolerated all kinds of alien religions as long as their adherents made the socially accepted gesture of sacrificing to the Emperor.

Once the Christians got into the saddle, they decided to go the Romans one better and force the people not merely to practise the devotions of Christianity, but to BELIEVE only certain doctrines. This was enforced by various means, the auto da fé being only the most notorious.

All religious conflicts have arisen from the efforts of one church or another to enforce not merely certain practises, but also certain beliefs. In the name of this enforcement, hideous abominations have been perpetrated. Nothing is too horrible to do to a person who refuses to believe as you do.

I have often said, and I truly think that it is true, that the worst thing that can happen to a religion is the establishment of a church. The more organised a church is, the more it possesses a hierarchical structure, the more it becomes a self-aggrandising power structure.

I think that everyone here who knows me knows that I an an agnostic. I became one by the application of reason to the world about me and to the teachings of several religions. Religions have too many facile answers to embarrassing questions, such as, "If God had wanted us to know that, He would have told us." or "Don't try to second-guess God."

If I were to find the doctrines of some religion acceptable, I would consider the fact to be my own business and no one else's. No one can compel me to believe ANYTHING. Nor can I be compelled to recant anything of the truth of which I am convinced , save by a statement made pro forma (and with my fingers crossed behind my back).

It is alleged that, after being forced to recant the Copernican theory that the Earth revolves about the Sun, Galileo, as he left the trial, muttered "E pur si muove." (It does too move.), illustrating the old adage "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

The eternal truths of religion and the doctrines which have grown up about them are two very different things. The latter have often justified monstrous behaviour toward those who think or believe otherwise. The inculcation of religious values at an early age is perilous. If done, it must be done by those who have no "axe to grind".

We have seen in the news the consequences of the inculation of evil doctrines in the very young. We have seen a 12-year-old boy urged to behead a western journalist and praised for doing so. Catch them young and brainwash them. This is the recipe for making fanatics and good cannon fodder.

This is what I fear if religion be anything but individual and personal.
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