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Extinct Germanic Groups General historical, social, linguistic, political and cultural topics pertinent to any of the various Germanic groups that have gone extinct.

The Treveri - Germanic or Celt?

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Old Monday, October 3rd, 2016   #1
Friedrich
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The Treveri - Germanic or Celt?

I will leave this to the experts, but were the Treveri Germanic or Celts?

What was the difference anyway?

I consider myself Treveri, but I know that physically I'm 100 percent Germanic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treveri

The Treveri certainly fought against the Romans with the other tribes, but they also made good citizens and peasants.

To compare, they were a bit like the Cherokee of antiquity.
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Old Monday, October 3rd, 2016   #2
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To the Romans only the Gauls were called Celts. The Belgae were effectively non-Gaulish Celtic speakers probably mixed with Germanic speakers.
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Old Monday, October 3rd, 2016   #3
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Interesting - apparently the modern German city of Trier was named after the Treveri.

They may have made us peasants, but we never lost the forest in our hearts.
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Old Tuesday, November 1st, 2016   #4
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The fact that Trier is derived from "Gallo-Latin" (in) Treveris is typical of late Gaulish antiquity, when the major cities of Gaul lost their original names to be called by tribal names - this is how Lutetia came to be known as Paris, from the name of the Parisii ("the craftsmen" ?) who inhabited the area.
Regardless of later population influxes, I am aware that the people of Saarland and Deutsch-Lothringen are racially mixed : the members of my family are all of more than average height and of fair complexion but many of my friends or colleagues are what you could call swarthy although they are of true autochtonous lineages and bear Germanic names, so I suppose our region was never 100% Germanic.
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Old Tuesday, November 1st, 2016   #5
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The Romans have founded Augusta Treverorum (Trier) as a capitol of Gallia Belgica. The Romans only the Kelts called Gall what word may connect to the Island Keltic "Gael". This means that the Treveri tribe was Gallic and the Ancient Germanics, the Ripuarian (river bank-dwelled) Franks and the Sali (sea coast-dwelled) Franks later have settled to that area.
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Old Tuesday, November 1st, 2016   #6
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You are right, Wulfaz. The German dialect of the Mosel valley south of Trier is also known to have retained more Latin words than the surrounding area, in particular in the vocabulary related to the making of wine, so it stands to reason that Romance-speaking communities may have survived much longer there than in other parts of south-western Germany before being absorbed into the Germanic-speaking world.

Gael and Gall are two distinct terms in Irish as far as I can remember, as Gall was the word applied to foreigners in Ireland in the Middle Ages. Maybe that was a reference to the fact that Gauls and Britons spoke a different Celtic language from that of Gaels or Goidelic peoples, Gaels being, if my memory does not fail me, a derivative of Goidel.
By the way, Gaulish (French gaulois) comes from Frankish *walhisc, an adjective which is still used to this day in the name of the Romance-speaking part of Lorraine, Welsch-Lothringen, and which is ultimately derived from the name of a Celtic tribe that lived in the south of Germany in prehistoric times, the Volcae.
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Old Tuesday, November 1st, 2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothringer View Post
By the way, Gaulish (French gaulois) comes from Frankish *walhisc, an adjective which is still used to this day in the name of the Romance-speaking part of Lorraine, Welsch-Lothringen, and which is ultimately derived from the name of a Celtic tribe that lived in the south of Germany in prehistoric times, the Volcae.
The *walhisc was the word what the Ancient Germanic used to the foreign people. Probably it means that foreign. The Anglo-Saxon called and the English call welsh the Keltic Walesian people.
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Old Tuesday, November 1st, 2016   #8
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The Celtic Volcae of ancient times must have been the direct neighbours of our Germanic ancestors, hence their name became synonymous with "foreigners". The term was later borrowed from Gothic Walh by the Slavs (Polish Włoch, Croatian Vlah, etc.) to designate various Romance-speaking peoples.

The Franks of Francia did the same by calling all Germans Alamanni, Alemanni, hence the French allemand.
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Old Sunday, November 6th, 2016   #9
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The Saarland in more contemporary historical times is probably very different to ancient times.

Because of its mineral wealth and industry it became a center of migration and occupation (notably the Romans and the French - and where there are armies stationed there will be a degree of admixture with local women).

I read a book about our surname, and at least from the patriarchal side of the family we didn't originate there either.
We actually came from the region of Oldenburg.

As far as swarthy goes, I'm not sure. According to my memory our whole street was basically blond and blue-eyed (except for the older people).
There were immigrants about (mainly Italians, Greeks or Turks), but they were pretty much distinct from us. We had nothing against them though, and had great times in their restaurants in the 1970s.

I know I had a French great-granny and there's some Italian on my mom's side. However, it doesn't seem to be very noticeable. Apparently my grandfather had to document this all to get married in the Third Reich, and we were considered totally Germanic. While that sounds great on Skadi, it wasn't very good after the War. While my grandpa was a Russian prisoner for five years my granny never got a penny of financial support that other widows and women got, and she had to beg from friends and family, while the French occupied their house and crapped in their marmalade jars. She barely avoided starvation. We were the "resident evil" just because we looked Nordic.
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Old Sunday, November 6th, 2016   #10
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If it can comfort you, I can tell you that several men in my family fought in Russia - they did not volunteer, as far as I know ! My father-in-law was in the HJ. Other members of the family (great-uncles) were sent to concentration camps, either because they were communist or because they didn't want to join the Wehrmacht or the SS (one of the cousins did, though).
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