Skadi Forum
 

Welcome to Skadi Forum, the largest Germanic online community forum where you can join over 45,000 members from around the world discussing all things of concern to you. To gain full access to Skadi Forum you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in over 100 topic forums and browse from over 800,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other members from around the world.
  • Post your own images and documents or access from over 70,000 files.
  • Gain access to special insider forums not available to guests.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support. If you have questions about the permissible content, please read the Skadi Forum disclaimer and the Skadi Forum rules.

Go Back   Skadi Forum > > Physical Anthropology
Register FAQ Rules Donate Arcade Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Physical Anthropology The study of the physical characteristics, variability and evolution of human races and sub-races.

Minimum IQ for Farming and Agriculture?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #1
Fire Sprite
Funding Member
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
Fire Sprite's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Day Ago
Join Date: Oct 2016
Ethnicity: Anglo-Australian
Ancestry: English
Country: Australia
Gender: Male
Zodiac Sign: Cancer
Personality: INTJ (The Mastermind)
Politics: Anti-debt
Religion: Muse Worship
Posts: 114
Fire Sprite is noble of speech.Fire Sprite is noble of speech.

Minimum IQ for Farming and Agriculture?

Does anyone know the minimum level of IQ required to 'farm' or manage livestock? Someone posted online about why they thought certain, let's say, 'humans' starve in fertile lands, simply reasoning that they didn't have the IQ required for self-sustainability.

One would expect only 'raider' mentality and malicious behavior from said beings if that were the case.

IQ, how low is too low?

Fire Sprite is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fire Sprite For This Useful Post:
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #2
North Vinlander
Senior Member
 
North Vinlander's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 12 Hours Ago
Join Date: Oct 2011
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Anglo-Canadian
Subrace: Nordid
Gender: Male
Politics: Ethnic Nationalism
Posts: 347
North Vinlander is noble of speech.North Vinlander is noble of speech.

Bantus are an agricultural race and were since before their expansion thousands of years ago. It's modern civilization they can't handle, not primitive agriculture. Europeans have a history of starving in fertile lands as well before the industrial revolution.
North Vinlander is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to North Vinlander For This Useful Post:
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #3
Žoreišar
Senior Member
 
Žoreišar's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 15 Hours Ago
Join Date: Feb 2010
Status: Available
Ethnicity: Scandinavian
Ancestry: Norwegian + Finnish
Subrace: Nordid-Fęlid
Country: Norway
Location: Sweden
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Occupation: Craftsman
Politics: Nationalism
Religion: Heathen worldview
Posts: 1,247
Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.Žoreišar is a sage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sprite View Post
Someone posted online about why they thought certain, let's say, 'humans' starve in fertile lands, simply reasoning that they didn't have the IQ required for self-sustainability.
I think the main reason for starvation in these areas, is over-population due to medicinal aid since the mid-20th century. Supposedly, the average fertility rate for the average sub-Saharan in pre-colonial times, were 20 children per woman, of whom almost 18 died before reaching adulthood, and the implementation of Western medicine has been introduced too sudden for their people to adapt along with it.

That being said, I'm sure the levels of famine would be lesser, had the European colonialists been allowed to farm the land. Especially in South-Africa has this become evident, after the "reclaiming" of farm land by Negroes.
__________________
A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations
Žoreišar is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Žoreišar For This Useful Post:
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #4
Huginn ok Muninn
Anachronism
Witenagemot
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
Huginn ok Muninn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Ethnicity: Germanic
Ancestry: Germany, Norway, England
Subrace: Nordeby
Country: United States
State: Texas
Gender: Male
Zodiac Sign: Leo
Personality: INTJ (The Mastermind)
Family: Single adult
Politics: Farther right than you.
Posts: 2,627
Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.Huginn ok Muninn is a deity.

Well, IQ certainly plays a part in this, as it does in everything. Europeans were bred in the north, though, where we had to do things just so to farm successfully, or our crops would freeze before they matured. That helped develop not only our higher IQs, but a tendency to OCD, which makes us efficient perfectionists as well. We discover better methods of farming (or blacksmithing, or whatever) and pass it to our children. So, our traditions play as big a part in our success as IQ does.
__________________
Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.
Huginn ok Muninn is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Huginn ok Muninn For This Useful Post:
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #5
Fire Sprite
Funding Member
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
Fire Sprite's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Day Ago
Join Date: Oct 2016
Ethnicity: Anglo-Australian
Ancestry: English
Country: Australia
Gender: Male
Zodiac Sign: Cancer
Personality: INTJ (The Mastermind)
Politics: Anti-debt
Religion: Muse Worship
Posts: 114
Fire Sprite is noble of speech.Fire Sprite is noble of speech.

So really, it's not quite a matter of IQ then... It's possibly a matter of 'lateral thinking', something along the lines of experimentation and creative solutions.

Creative intelligence isn't studied or quantified as far as I know. So I wonder what the correlation between CI (My short for Creative Intelligence) would be between civilization advancement or society cohesiveness? Do you think there is one? Speculatively thinking that is.

If CI was able to be quantified, I wonder how it would translate to a chart... Could be rather interesting. Maybe highlighting violence species, parasitic species, replicators, creatives.... Oh that WOULD be interesting.
Fire Sprite is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #6
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Thursday, September 7th, 2017
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: Other
Location: Aqua
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Gondolier
Posts: 2,210
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Most Africans are hoe farmers (without the plow) else cattle herders. The plow needs draught livestock to stay in one place without migration, which is costly because of tsetse fly. Similarly pigs cannot migrate so pigs did not cross the Sahara. Horses did not get beyond the Sudan/Sahel zone. Guineafowl were domesticated but only loosely: they remain semi-wild. Many plants were domesticated indigenously.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #7
The Horned God
Funding Member
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
The Horned God's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Friday, June 30th, 2017
Join Date: Mar 2006
Ethnicity: Irish
Subrace: Atlantid
Country: Other
Location: Ireland
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Family: Single adult
Posts: 2,272
The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
Most Africans are hoe farmers (without the plow) else cattle herders. The plow needs draught livestock to stay in one place without migration, which is costly because of tsetse fly.
It's a pity the africans never thought to domesticate the Zebra. There was a perfect beast of burden that was immune to the tsetse fly.
__________________
Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.
The Horned God is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #8
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Thursday, September 7th, 2017
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: Other
Location: Aqua
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Gondolier
Posts: 2,210
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
It's a pity the africans never thought to domesticate the Zebra. There was a perfect beast of burden that was immune to the tsetse fly.
Only the quagga was domesticable.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #9
The Horned God
Funding Member
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
The Horned God's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Friday, June 30th, 2017
Join Date: Mar 2006
Ethnicity: Irish
Subrace: Atlantid
Country: Other
Location: Ireland
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Family: Single adult
Posts: 2,272
The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.The Horned God is a sage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
Only the quagga was domesticable.
Not so. Burchell's zebra (the common zebra) was also found to be highly trainable.

Quote:
Captain Horace Hayes, in "Points of the Horse" (circa 1893), compared the usefulness of different zebra species. In 1891, Hayes broke a mature, intact mountain zebra stallion to ride in two days time, and the animal was quiet enough for his wife to ride and be photographed upon.

He found the Burchell's zebra easy to break, and considered it ideal for domestication, as it was immune to the bite of the tsetse fly. He considered the quagga (now extinct) well-suited to domestication due to being easy to train to saddle and harness
Wiki

There are examples of wild zebras being broken and made into quite usable beasts of burden.







The notion that sub-saharan africans never domesticated the horse because the Zebra was untrainable was popularised by Jared Diamond in "Guns, Germs and Steel". But given that there are several examples of Zebras indeed being domesticated it looks like a pretty weak thesis.

It seems to me that by far the most likely explanation for why the Africans never domesticated the zebra is that they never thought to attempt it.
__________________
Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.
The Horned God is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Horned God For This Useful Post:
Old Tuesday, March 28th, 2017   #10
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: Thursday, September 7th, 2017
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: Other
Location: Aqua
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Gondolier
Posts: 2,210
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

It was not Diamond's observation but Francis Galton's followed by mammalogist Clutton-Brock's.

It does look like zebras lost some potential for tameability in their evolutionary history but in any case Clutton-Brock noticed psychological/behavioural traits marking out zebras and some other anmals as less domesticable than the ancestors of domestic relatives by their absence. They have a less predictable nature and tendency to panic under stress. This instability is even shown to other herbivores in zoo collections whilst with the wild horses and asses this is not the case: zebras will even atack white rhino calves in the presence of their mothers. They have a reputation like chimps and black rhinos for being vicious for no reason. In safari parks and similar exhibits they have to be kept away from any breeding animals because they are senselessly violent. At Knowsley an oryx killed a zebra because the zebra tried to kill the baby oryx - for no reason.

Equipment used in horse taming and domestication is imitative of that used on bovids. Still how long have cattle and small ruminant hoofstock been known in Africa - long enough to be imitated, no?

No one knows where the zebras fit in the family tree incidentally, they might be sister taxon to donkeys with Grevy's zebra reduced to a subspecies(?) or Grevy's zebra is within Eurasian asses, Hartmann's is a true African ass and Equus quagga is a sister group to both asses. Either way they're all closer to donkeys than to horses. Obviously it would be nice to plot behavioural traits onto a family tree but the tree is unstable.



Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Civilization As Agriculture Or Farming of Human Beings Caledonian Modern 7 Saturday, May 14th, 2016 11:48 PM
Founded in 1981, the Farming Systems Trial (FST) is America’s Longest Running, Side-by-side Comparison of Conventional and Organic Agriculture. Hersir Self-Reliance, Homemaking & Gardening 0 Saturday, April 9th, 2011 01:23 AM
Liberal: Abolish Minimum Criminal Age Blod og Jord Denmark 0 Friday, October 16th, 2009 05:56 PM
A Minimum Price for Alcoholic Beverages? Sigurd Law, Ethics & Morals 6 Wednesday, April 22nd, 2009 09:48 AM



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Skadi.net.
Except where otherwise noted, all content on this site is licensed.
[ Disclaimer ] [ Contact Us ] [ Privacy Statement ]

Powered by Skadi.net  Creative Commons License

Page generated in 0.76944 seconds with 14 queries