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Immigration & Race Relations Discussion regarding multiculturalism & diversity, as well as the effects and realities of globalization. Covering articles on immigration & crime - and discussing possible solutions.

Why So-called Nationalists Want Muslims to Stop Wearing Islamic Garb

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Old Monday, April 10th, 2017   #1
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Why So-called Nationalists Want Muslims to Stop Wearing Islamic Garb

Does it seem odd to you that they would want to make Muslims look less Muslim? It's the opposite of what the Third Reich did with Jews. Varg points out that many MENA immigrants are indistinguishable from Med Europeans without Islamic garb.

Arab vs Italian


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Old Monday, April 10th, 2017   #2
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The Orientalid is not native to Europe but other strains native to the Arabic world are. Europe versus non-Europe is racially nonexistent. In anthropology they were all Caucasian/White.
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Old Tuesday, April 11th, 2017   #3
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When nationalists try to ban hijabs etc, it’s acting on an instinct to try to ban the most obvious, immediately foreign cultural aspect.
It’s of course, superficial however because it doesn’t affect the core problem, which is biological. It’s rather reminding of mere civic nationalism and the futile attempt to assimilate racial foreigners. Parallel societies are still preferable to miscegenation.

There’s a certain phenotypical overlap between Southern Europeans and MENAs(though, not even MENAs look alike, actually), no doubt. But on average they’re quite easily discernible.
Belucci looks “European”, whereas Alamuddin is clearly foreign, it’s a different facial shape. The latter looks even more foreign on about any other photo I could find of her but she's actually one of the less foreign looking Lebanese anyway.
Though she seems to wear so much makeup, it's hard to tell either way.




But for me it wouldn’t even be a problem if we couldn’t discern them because I don’t want either in my country.
Although I’d still prefer Southern Europeans to MENAs any day, if we only have the choice between these two. Both from a racial, as well as a cultural-historical aspect.
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Old Tuesday, April 11th, 2017   #4
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I suspect that the motivation (at least unconsciously) may just be a big to the Muslims, and not necessarily thought out at all. Maybe they want to make them feel unwelcome so they'll leave.

Regarding the discernibility of Med Euros and MENA types, remember that 99.9% of the population are no experts on taxonomy. How many random people (who've never even heard of Skadi or Zeta boards) do you think could really tell this guy is Middle Eastern and not French or something?
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Old Tuesday, April 11th, 2017   #5
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I can assure you any random, average European of whatever political ideology can tell, that this guy is not a native European, certainly not from France(their countless colonial descendants obviously excluded). They don’t have to be specialists in physical anthropology for that and neither does he need a “yellow half moon” on his jacket for that.
Liberals will say, that race is not important but that’s besides they point, not even they will generally doubt that this guy looks different to us.

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Old Tuesday, April 11th, 2017   #6
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I hope they do wear their Islamic garb.
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Old Wednesday, April 12th, 2017   #7
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Banning the hijab is knee-jerk.

Who remembers the fuss we should ban the burkini, which fundamentalists hate anyway. Or perhaps what they hate is Moslems modernizing, without Westernising. It's why they hate Iran and was why they hated Imperial Japan and the Asian Tigers. And even Communist Russia to a degree, initially (((western))) bankers were enthusiastic about modernisation in Russia then turned against once Russia diverged.
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Old Saturday, April 15th, 2017   #8
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This is ridiculous. Nationalists and other Europeans should have no say in what they wear. We should have ABSOLUTE say in whether or not they are allowed residence within our lands. Whining about their clothing is WEAK, and only emboldens them to believe we have no spine to resist their open invasion and stated will to eventually conquer our lands.
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Old Saturday, April 15th, 2017   #9
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The "nationalists" who busy themselves with eroding the customs and traditions of Muslim migrants do so because they're just enlightenment extremists, sometimes they're not even nationalists, but simply liberals or socialists, and there's the odd feminist. No matter who they are, they believe in secularism/liberalism ("the Western values", which happen to be the values of May '68 for some reason...) more than in nationalism, at any rate. Their issue is with Islam, not diversity as such. Far right parties mostly or exclusively cater to this crowd. At the heart of their integrationist policies lies the erroneous belief that anyone can be German or Dutch or Swedish and as capable of transmitting the local culture as a native, as long as they're liberal. It's all an illusion, of course, we see that with our very own eyes every single day. One only has to look at the modern day race relations in America to see that integrationist ideas are an utter failure. Despite speaking the same language and sharing a religion, there's not a single nation in America. Decades after blacks have received equality, they're still demanding to be "equal" - it will never be enough.

As long as we're debating Islam, which is already problematic for the upper layer of society - yet tolerated at certain times - we're not discussing the real issue: the necessity of the creaton of ethnostates and hence the end of globalism. This is probably why it's not forbidden yet. No matter which policies will come from this debate, they will always strengthen the left: either because the phoney right comes to the rescue of progressives and liberalism by ending Muslim migration and perhaps shipping some of them home or the by the phoney right not being able to implement its policies, which will lead to more Muslim migration and hence the strengthening of far left parties which use these Muslims as voter cattle, who, in turn try to use these parties to enact islamist policies. In the end the far left will discover that Muslims can't be bought and their "utopia" (our nightmare) will collapse.

The subject of this thread revolves around the division we see within the right, all the more so in cyberspace, the only place where we can truly confront the adherents of "nationalism" light.

The fault lines are:

Alt-lite vs alt-right
Liberalism vs traditionalism
Civic nationalism vs ethnonationalism

If you back one of these things, you'll automatically back the two others across the same side of the fault line to some degree.
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Old Saturday, April 15th, 2017   #10
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I think this has to be seen from different angles, and the discussion isn't really about whether we actually want to assimilate people who are biologically, culturally or otherwise completely unassimilable. A lot of Turkish women, especially young ones run around unveiled and I've rarely confused one for an indigenous person.

Most Germans wouldn't confuse Mesut Özil or Sami Khedira for a German if they didn't wear the bib of the Football national team, either. Not even Mehmet Scholl (footballer) or Pascal Wehrlein (automobile racing driver) even though they have German surnames.

Most folks are laymen to academic anthropology, but humans have an ingrained instinct to notice whether someone belongs or doesn't and if someone looks off, they will notice, it's merely being suppressed in some these days. I always remember one anecdote: Some Negro had been hitting on a girl and she didn't like it. When she discovered her purse was stolen, some left-wing anti-racist loose youth acquaintance was the first in the bar to accuse the Negro of being the thief. It's just suppressed, and there it came to the forefront.

At the end it boils down to: Whilst foreign people are in our country, yes we do have a right to decree upon them what attire is acceptable and which isn't. Our house, our rules, and one big thing about Europeans is that we look people into their faces when we speak to them, and that we hold women in some esteem and are well able to handle our women without having to lock them away and/or cover them. As such: Come into our country, even just as a tourist, I do think one should adhere to our rules and take it off.

In an ideal world of course it doesn't matter whether Muslim women wear a headscarf or whether Muslim men rund around as Arab oil-sheikhs because they'd quite simply not be in our countries. I still think it's offensive towards the dignity of women because I operate from an ancient (Indo-)Germanic viewpoint and thus strongly believe that men and women are different yet complimentary to each other and whilst a strong pater familias is needed for a final say on external affairs, we do like our women to be headstrong and equals, not subordinates.

But - in their own country, I don't mind how they handle things. I don't plan on travelling there and it wouldn't be my right to tell them they can't let's say stone their sisters to death if they have premarital sex. Stone a different sister every other week if you please, if that's the way you roll in your camel caravan's backwards desert tent village, go ahead. But you ain't doing it here, our approach to the concept of honour is quite a different one.

But, again: here it's our house, our rules, and I think we can tell them apart as being an unwanted foreign element whether veiled or unveiled.
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