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Viking Age World, people and events during the Viking Age (793-1066).

Celtic-Viking Relationships?

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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #1
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Question Celtic-Viking Relationships?

Has anyone any info on any Celtic and Viking connections.
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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #2
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusViking
Has anyone any info on any Celtic and Viking connections.
See this linked thread:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8596

It has some genetic info based on HLA genotypes (which are considered more reliable than Y-Chromosome or even mtDNA) - it shows that there is a distinctive "European" gene marker that has highest concentration in the Irish, followed next by Swedes. The author calls it "Norse." Interestingly, it seems to have originated in the British Isles during the LGM, and spread throughout Europe via the Vikings.
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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #3
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Thanks Scoob. I will review.
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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #4
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

In terms of historical social contact, the best documented contact with a distinctively Celtic culture would have been with the Irish.
Just as Ireland was developing itself as a centre for western civilisation during it's Golden Age, the Vikings turned up with excessively bad timing and started pillaging monstaries, which happened to be the seats of learning and the repositories of classical knowledge and culture in Ireland.

The Annals of the Four Masters and other medieval Irish works often record these norse incursions. A lot of it seems to be tit-for-tat invasions, with Vikings taking their longboats up rivers and pillaging the settlements and churches along their way, followed the next year by some Irish clan going on the offensive and burning all the longboats and viking settlements.
It tends to carry on in this vain for the next couple of centuries.

It must be remembered that it was the Vikings that brought urban life to Ireland and built the first major towns such as Dublin and Limerick.
Eventually however, the King of Munster (Brian Boru) at over 80 years old, faced the Vikings at the Battle of Clontarf and decisively defeated them, ending any real power they had. The Vikings continued to live in Dublin and their other settlements but from then on, they were subject to the Irish kings. Eventually, these Norsemen assimilated into Gaelic culture and by the time of the Norman invasions a couple of centuries later, they were basically indistinguishable from the rest of the Irish.

Norse words were also introduced into Irish at this time which prompted the change from Old Irish to Middle Irish. The records start to show Irish people with names such as Magnus / Manus, etc which were orginally names brought by the Vikings. Of course, language also went the other way too, and even today Brian is a common name in Scandinavia (as well as all over the English speaking world), and this of course is a Gaelic name.

In all there was a fair amount of interaction between the Vikings and Celts, and both had some lasting influence on the other.

Last edited by Milesian : Wednesday, May 5th, 2004 at 01:13 PM.
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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #5
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusViking
Has anyone any info on any Celtic and Viking connections.
A couple weeks ago, I came across an interesting article about Ancient Celtic / Scottish/ Viking sites in New Zealand and I thought it may be of some interest to you...It talks about a connection between Celts and Vikings and that they may have been the first settlers in New Zealand, not the so called "native" Maori tribes. It is a very interesting article, and IMO a good read...Although, it is a bit long. It also may not be the connection you were looking for but I would recommend it.

Here's the link: http://www.kilts.co.nz/mhorruairidh.htm
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Old Wednesday, May 5th, 2004   #6
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Quote:
Originally Posted by TisaAnne
A couple weeks ago, I came across an interesting article about Ancient Celtic / Scottish/ Viking sites in New Zealand and I thought it may be of some interest to you...It talks about a connection between Celts and Vikings and that they may have been the first settlers in New Zealand, not the so called "native" Maori tribes. It is a very interesting article, and IMO a good read...Although, it is a bit long. It also may not be the connection you were looking for but I would recommend it.

Here's the link: http://www.kilts.co.nz/mhorruairidh.htm
E. Best(*) makes mention of a special anthropological type among the Maori people, the Urukehu.
It's not linked with any form of abinism, nor is it common, it happens to re-appear in certain families.
Urukehus are fair, light-skinned and has reddish hair with a peculiar bronze-like sheen.
Roland Dixon on his turn hints on a Caspian("Nordic" or brunet white) element mixed with Paleo-Negrid and Paleo-Australid in Hawaians and Maoris.

* E.BEST, The Maori as he was. A Brief Account of Maori Life as it was in Pre-European Days.
Wellinfton, 1974.
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Old Friday, May 14th, 2004   #7
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

My question lies not so much with the biological relation as the religious. (sp?) I have a pretty good grasp of the Keltoi approach and mythology/history (depending on your perspective) How do my beleifs translate into the Asatru? I know they are similar in some respects, but I don't feel completely comfortable int their differences to explain them to anyone.
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Old Friday, May 14th, 2004   #8
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

The ancient pagan Celts and the ancient pagan Norse both had different pantheons of gods and goddesses, they don't share any particular similarity with each other any more than they do with other European pagan beliefs.
In addition, the Celtic pantheon wasn't the same everywhere. For instance, the ancient Welsh and ancient Irish deities shared some similarities but there were also many differences too. The Irish believed in the Land of the Ever Young which could be found beyond the western shore or under lakes, whereas for the Welsh, paradise was the apple orchard of Avalon.
The Celts tended to worship many local dieties as well, so there was a lot of difference even among the Celts.
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Old Saturday, May 15th, 2004   #9
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Actually, the bulk of Norse mythology was in fact borrowed from the ancient Gauls. And don't confuse the practices of the British Isles' primitive natives with what was really Celtic.
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Old Saturday, May 15th, 2004   #10
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Post Re: Celtic, Viking Relationships

Sorry to be repetitive but can you provide sources again, for the claim that Norse mythology was borrowed from the Gauls?

As for the practices of the natives of Britain, they certainly differed from those of the Continental Celts (they even differed from each other). Then again, the Continental Celts differed from each other in their practices as well.
Also interesting is that Caesar's belief that Druidism originated in Britain and spread to the Continental Celts is one that modern historians are starting to share
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